Conservative political commentator Tucker Carlson released a wide-ranging interview Monday with journalist and author Michael Shellenberger in which the pair of truth-tellers discussed the possibility of a "Twitter Files"-style exposé of the U.S. government under the Trump administration, which could shine a light on the concerning possibility of American biological labs in war-torn Ukraine.

TUCKER CARLSON: I was watching Jon Karl, who I on CBS, who I've known. Someone sent me a clip this morning. Jon Karl. I've known him for over 30 years. Nice guy, you know, reasonable guy. And and then Trump comes, the business starts to collapse and he realizes I'm speaking for him, but he realizes, shit, 'You know, I'm a middle aged white guy. I better go along.' And he becomes just this cheerleader for every stupid woke idea ever, ever was. You feel sorry for him? He's a nice guy, actually, and not a stupid guy. So when you send me a clip of Jon Karl, like basically defending Trump.

MICHAEL SHELLENBERGER: The whether the win is a win.

TUCKER CARLSON: Then you realize that most people just kind of you know, they they're easy to control. You just yeah, tell them what the program is and they go along.

MICHAEL SHELLENBERGER: Yeah, it's Kent Brockman. No, you're totally right.

TUCKER CARLSON: I welcome our new alien overlords.

MICHAEL SHELLENBERGER: They're the first. They're the first ones to shift. No, you're right. Right. You're right. Yeah, because they're covering the news like they know they're the first ones that know when the winds are coming.

TUCKER CARLSON: Principle plays no role. Most people just kind of go along with what they think. The marching.

MICHAEL SHELLENBERGER: Amazing. It really reveals, doesn't it? The herd animals.

TUCKER CARLSON: So yeah I CBS, I think is at ABC whatever they're all the same and they're all going away. Yeah but if you're true entrenched power which does exist particularly in the Intel agencies I mean that's where it really resides as far as I can tell. Like, I don't know, it's like pretty threat. You've just thought there's been a massive movement in power from the news media, which you control. That's a fact. I would say, in effect, control news is controlled by the Intel agencies, in fact, to something you can't control. So that's a huge loss of power for you. So, like, how can you let this continue?